Joe Leonas

Joe Leonas is the Chief of Police for Lincolnshire, Illinois. Chief Leonas has been the Lincolnshire Police Chief for 10 years, but began his law enforcement career in 1990 with the Village of Bartlett, Illinois. Over the course of his 26-year career, he held various positions including: Detective, Crime Prevention Officer, School Resource Officer, Sergeant, Investigations Commander, and Deputy Chief. Leonas also served as the Case Management Commander on the Major Case Assistance Team (MCAT) – a homicide task force comprised of over 22 police agencies in Cook County – and was responsible for the development of MCAT’s Serious Traffic Accident Reconstruction (STAR) Team. Leonas graduated from DePaul University with a bachelor’s degree in English and received his master's degree from Western Illinois University in Law Enforcement and Justice Administration. Leonas also graduated from Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety School of Police Staff & Command, as well as the FBI National Academy in Quantico, Virginia. Leonas has instructed police officers since 1998 in many areas, including: homicide investigations, juvenile justice, police applicant backgrounds, leadership & management, and internal affairs. In addition to teaching for the Northwestern University Center for Public Safety, Leonas is an adjunct professor at DePaul University in Chicago. Leonas also taught at the Suburban Law Enforcement Academy (SLEA), Northeast Multi-Regional Training (NEMRT), Aurora University, and the College of DuPage. Leonas currently serves as the President on the Executive Board of the Lake County Chiefs of Police Association, Secretary on the Advisory Board of Directors for North East Multi-Regional Training (NEMRT), and Vice President on the Board of Directors for the Lake County Major Crash Assistance Team (MCAT).  Chief Leonas was the President of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police from April 2025 – May 2026. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Joe Leonis is the Chief of Police for Lincolnshire, Illinois. Chief Leonis has been the Lincolnshire Police Chief for 10 years, but began his law enforcement career in 1990 with the village of Bartlett, Illinois. Over the course of his 26-year career, he held positions including detective, crime prevention officer, school resource officer, sergeant, investigations commander, and deputy chief. Leonis also served as the case management commander on the Major Case Assistance Team, a homicide task force comprised of over 22 police agencies in Cook County, and was responsible for the development of MCAT's serious traffic accident reconstruction team. Most recently, Leonis created Protect Lake County, a multidisciplinary task force devoted to the prevention of targeted violence. Leonis graduated from DePaul University with a bachelor's degree in English and received a master's degree from Western Illinois University in Law Enforcement and Justice Administration. Leonis also graduated from Northwestern University Center for Public Safety School of Police Staff and Command, as well as the FBI National Academy in Quantico, Virginia. Leonis has instructed police officers since 1998 in many areas, including homicide investigations, juvenile justice, police applicant backgrounds, leadership and management and internal affairs. In addition to teaching for Northwestern, Leonis is an adjunct professor at DePaul University in Chicago. Leonis also taught at the Suburban Law Enforcement Academy, Northwest Mutual Regional Training, Aurora University, and the College of DuPage. Leonis currently serves as the president on the Advisory Board of Directors for the Northeast Multiregional Training, past President of the Lake County Chiefs of Police Association, Vice President for the Lake County Major Crash Assistance Team, and was the president of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police from April 2025 to May 2026. Welcome to the Moline Police Podcast, where you hear conversations about our people, our cases, and our community. Molinee is located in the heart of the Midwest, along the Mississippi River, just three hours from Des Moines, Iowa, in Chicago, Illinois. The Moline Police Department has served our community since 1872. Our agency is guided by core values of professionalism, teamwork, and integrity that help us provide high-quality policing to improve the safety and quality of life in our community. This is the Moline PD cast. I am in studio today with my co-host, Detective Mike Griffin. Mike, how are you? Good, chief. How are you today? Pretty good. Mike, you've been uh here at the Moline Police Department a long time. You've been in investigations a long time. Who were uh some of your mentors when you first started as uh a detective back in your early days?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

You know, I had some good FTOs when I first got hired, and then when I went to investigations, uh a guy named Scott Mason, who's now retired, um, he took me under his wing, um, which I'm sure, you know, he was a veteran, took a young guy under his wing, can be pretty annoying. But uh he did it gracefully and uh he taught me a lot, and I appreciate uh Scott and guys like him.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, and you you've uh you served with a lot of um people around the quad cities, you've got uh friends and uh detectives and colleagues from all over that you've learned a lot from, um, worked with uh different agencies, learned uh different things from different agencies.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah, yeah, you know, in the quad cities, it's it's a big metropolitan area, but it's a small community and uh we all work really well together and uh I've uh my career has benefited from that.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

You know, one thing that when I became the police chief uh about seven years ago here in Moline, uh I think everybody thinks when you take a new position, you know, I can do it. Uh I know I have the answers. And uh, you know, I I lived through a really kind of difficult first year there as in my uh as my role as police chief. We we were going well, and then we get into 2020, and um a lot of things happened in 2020, COVID, uh budget cuts, uh, anti-police narrative and things like that. And uh, you know, things that people really hadn't encountered before. And I had really leaned on some local mentors, um uh Jeff Van Heisen, who was a longtime police chief in Rock Island here locally. The sheriff at that time was Jerry Bustos, was a good mentor for me. But one of the best things that I did was got very involved in the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police, and I met some really great people that uh have been involved in that association. And for a police chief, I think that has really helped me. Uh, and uh a couple of my mentors that I've really leaned on really hard, uh Joe Leonis, Pat Creese, and Vernon Hills. And we have uh Joe Leonis on the podcast today. Joe, I'm uh very thankful that you've come on to talk uh with us and and our listeners today. Thanks again for coming on.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Good morning. Good morning, Darren, good morning, Mike. Thanks for having me along. Thanks for the the really, really long bio introduction.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, I feel very old. Yeah, I I uh I didn't realize how long that bio was, but you are a really important person.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I think it's because you've been doing it forever. You've been doing this forever, I think. As you as uh I think we put a couple dates in there. People are probably like, wow, this guy's been doing this a long time.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah, I mean, I'm not I haven't been around as long as 1872 uh as far as Moline, but close. I'm you know, I'm from the 1900s, so it feels it feels a long time.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Well, you started in Bartlett, uh, as I said in uh the bio, you you spent a great long career there in bio or Bartlett did a lot of great things. Why Bartlett? What uh drew you to policing in uh in that time period and uh and how did you end up in Bartlett, Illinois?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Well, it's that's a very long story, and I'll I guess I'll try to make it brief because otherwise the hour will be up before I finish my answer. But um Bartlett uh was sort of an act, I got what I call as I was an accidental police officer. And uh, you know, back in the late 80s, um I was actually I got married young, had kids young, I was working in a factory, um, and I didn't have law enforcement, you know, on my bingo card. It wasn't something I was even considering. Um, but because I didn't really have a whole lot of options, I started looking in what was called the newspaper for the want ads. And I would occasionally, because I was kind of miserable, uh, when I was working uh these jobs, and I was I felt like I was pretty good at it. I was a forklift operator. I mean, it was this it was a fun job in many ways, but it was kind of that was it. So I always um looked to other professions like policing or firefighters as you know, as something I probably wouldn't be able to achieve. Um and so it was kind of just something I would look when I was looking through the lawn ads, I would pass over these ads and not even give it much thought. And then I mentioned it to my wife. I said, Hey, you know, maybe I want to be a police officer. And I was 20 21 or 22 at the time, and she just laughed, she like belly laughed, and uh that gave me the uh the idea, no, I gotta really do this. So it was sort of a challenge. Um, and again, there's a lot of a lot of um different stories that I'll avoid with that whole thing. But um I just I found Bartlett because it was um near where we were at. I wasn't really familiar with the town, um, but I applied. This is one of those where you have to go in person, drop off the application that you hand wrote out. Um and I just made the deadline and I went through the process, and each time it was like a new um challenge for me, whether it was the PT test and the written tests and all that stuff. So um I was lucky enough to get hired. Um, and I say lucky enough because I probably didn't deserve to get hired. I had no background. Um, but that that's the beauty about our jobs is that really you can be an entry-level person, and we do this all the time now, it doesn't seem that strange, but um we can if you're if you're halfway smart, if you if you have a good head on your shoulders, and you have the the desire to help people, we can train you up and make you a good police officer. And I think that probably goes for Maline or any community. Um and Bartlett took a chance on me, they they sent me to the police academy. And I didn't intend on staying very long in the profession. I thought maybe I would do a few years and go to law school or something like that. And uh like I said, it was kind of crazy. Once I was in the academy, I just got the bug. I said, This is my profession, this is my vocation, this is where I want to be. And um, that was 36 years ago now. And uh yeah, my wife still laughs about that, by the way. She still doesn't still do can't believe that I'm a police officer. So Chief, uh that's the short answer.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Thank you. Uh speaking of your time at Barlett, uh, which assignment there uh changed you the most?

SPEAKER_02 10:04

So I had I again I had a very uh blessed career. I was able to do a lot of different assignments. I was in detectives early in my career. Um I did crime prevention. Um, both of those were very uh impactful for me. In detectives, I worked a lot of major cases. Um, but probably the one that had the most impact was my uh job at the high school. We had a new high school that just opened up in Bartlett. Um and I applied and I was accepted as the school resource officer. And that one really, I think, changed my direction in life, not just as a police officer, but as just as a as a father and a husband and just as a human being. Um it really provided some uh grounding, if you will, to my life in that position.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

What do you how do you think that that still impacted you today as a police chief? Did what did a school resource officer position teach you that still matters to you today?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Well, so first of all, you know, police officers, they work uh midnight shift, afternoon shift, day shift. Uh we, as you know, we see kind of the worst of the worst, you know, the uh people don't call us when they're experiencing good times. So we we kind of can get jaded. And what I what happened when I was in the schools is I saw the best of people, really good people. Um, and you were there really in a preventive role for the most part. Um, and the stuff that did happen, you know, you were able to manage. And the principles that I brought forward, I still think about this, is that people are pretty much basically good. Um, they mean well, and they still they can make mistakes. Um but overall it it kind of uh reignited my belief in humanity, if you will. Uh and I still today think of think back to those moments um in that way. The other thing is um as an SRO, you're kind of you think of the school as a city. So you have the nurse, it's kind of like being in the hospital, and then you have, you know, like the police department is just this one person in this office, and then you have you know, everybody else has their other roles, and you had, you know, a few thousand people milling around this building. You have to be able to make decisions immediately. They have to be good decisions, they have to be reasonable, they have to have um consensus with the school rules and the school faculty and the parents. So you're kind of um you're kind of uh actually sort of becoming a police chief, if you will, to some degree on your own, just by again, having to be a a leader within that system.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

So you spent a good 26 years and Bartland did a lot, as I mentioned in the bio, and somewhere along the line you got the bug to be a police chief and uh ended up in Lincolnshire. Can you walk us through that, how that happened?

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah, that was um that again was very interesting. Um I grew up in the area in Lake County area, um, so I was familiar with Lincolnshire a little bit. Uh it's a pretty small town. It was um, to me, the perfect place to go for Barlow. So just to um back up a little bit, Barlow was a very small community in 1990. Um, the police force, we had about 25 officers, and it grew rapidly. As you know, like through the 90s, it was this growth of housing, and the town expanded quite a bit and ended up, I think, around 40,000, 45,000 people. Um, and we ended up with about 60 officers. And when I was looking at departments, I sort of had, you know, as you know, there's uh different departments in different areas, and this this community was smaller, the department was small, and I felt in many ways I was asking myself, if I had to do it over again, would I do it? And I said, Yeah. And then it kind of made me nostalgic for the early days. And so Lincolnshire being a small town, small department, I thought would be a good fit. Um, and so I ended up here. They uh they took me in. It was uh it was very interesting, it was like going back in time because and and I know Moline's a much bigger community, um a much bigger force, and you'd have a lot more staff in a bigger department, and Barlow was probably whatever, half half the size of Moline, or maybe even smaller than that. Well, Lincolnshire's even smaller. So the the thing that was most telling for me was really um a test of skills because you it's a hands-on approach. There's there's no uh you know, cadre of staff that can just do tasks. You kind of have to do everything, similar to when I was an SRO. You have to kind of have to be everywhere all at once.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

So for those of uh that don't know where Lincolnshire is, uh just to set uh kind of the stage, uh uh Lincolnshire is a community in Lake County, Illinois. Uh Lake County is uh north of Chicago. I in um just looking up some stats uh online, it says Lake County has over 700,000 residents uh right on uh Lake Michigan, uh at the Wisconsin border, there kind of key things that are up in that area, Six Flags, uh Great America in Lake County. Um and uh so you're you're even though when you say you're a small department, you're you're in one of the biggest counties in the state of Illinois, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, and you know when you're in this area, you really can't tell one community from the next. We kind of all border each other and we share a lot of resources. And uh the idea in this area in particular is task forces and um again shared resources. So we have a homicide task force, we have a major crash task force, we have a burglary task force. Uh, you know, you name it, we're kind of all operating together. So that's the benefit, even being from a small community, is we have some of my detectives have worked, you know, multiple homicides, you know, 10, 20, 30 homicides. Um, they get into some pretty complex cases. So yeah, it's a small town and uh it is a nice community, but it's among you know a sea of other communities.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

So you were an outside chief uh coming from Bartlett into Lincolnshire. Kind of common up in the the collar areas of Chicago where the chief maybe uh is an outside chief coming from another career at another department. Not as common in the quad cities where uh where we're located, although I am an outside chief. I did 21 years at the city of East Moline, and then I've been here for seven years. When I came to Moline, I I knew a lot about the department. Of course, like Mike and I had worked together on cases uh when I was a lieutenant investigations. Uh, I knew a lot of the the staff here at Moline, but I didn't know the inner workings of the department. I wasn't really sure of the kind of the landscape of things that um that I needed to either change or or start working on. So um I actually started working off of a plan that a friend of mine, well not a friend, a relative of mine, is uh uh a CFO. Uh at the time he was a CFO of Fortune 5 Fire and Company up in Chicago. And so I had a transition plan, and just part of that transition plan was just kind of getting the lay of the land, right? Doing an assessment and listening to uh the employees and trying to figure out what was going on here in Molene. When you got to Lincolnshire, how did you do that? And what did you think the department needed you to focus on most right away?

SPEAKER_02 18:20

So, yeah, coming in from the outside as you did too, you did you just have no idea what you're getting into. You can look at it from the outside and say, well, it's a nice town, nice department. Everything seems to be going pretty smoothly. Um, and then you get in there and you can really, you know, it's kind of like bringing your car to the mechanic. They never give you an estimate of what it's all. They always they always want to take a look and they find 15 things. I would say what the key for me coming in number one is when I left my department, we sort of had this, you know, the Bartlett way, and we we prided ourselves on being instructors and kind of leading the way. Um, and I honestly when coming to Lincolnshire, there really wasn't much of an identity um to the department that I was aware of, and it seemed more insular. And, you know, for example, even the building when I walked to the police department, there wasn't one photograph hanging on the wall of any of the officers or anything. There was no, it was a few, you know, picture boxes with patches in it, um, and some name tags from the retirees, but it felt like kind of just a sterile environment. Um and so there was a few things. I wanted, I thought from a culture standpoint, we need to figure out who we are. Uh, because it is a small community, there's potential. I didn't know if there was a lot of turnover, you know, maybe people come here to get started and move on to a bigger community. Um, and I thought that might be a challenge. So but the other thing is you don't want to go into a place and assume your culture or put that onto other people. You want to build it, you know, kind of from the ground up and and have people invested in that because you know, as you know, you may have all the answers, but those answers may not fit with the problems that you're seeing. So I thought I needed to figure out three things. Number one, does everybody know what they're doing? You know, just from a fundamental point of view. Do the officers know how to answer calls and are they skilled? Do they need more training? Um, and then do our policies support what they're doing, not having looked at the policies. And there was some pretty outdated stuff when I got here. Um and then only when you answer those two questions, then you can get to the culture, and I thought that was the critical piece. And um it took a lot of buy-in from the officers to be able to do that. It was, you know, it's easy for me to say, you know, give the speeches, say, okay, let's all come together, but each officer has to individually decide for themselves, you know, sort of who they are, what do they stand for. And uh I got lucky. Uh you know, I promoted some good people, uh, we hired a lot of good people. Um, and as you know, like turnover happens, so when that turnover happens, it's an opportunity to imprint, you know, again, your culture when they're coming through the door. So um that was about 10 years ago. And uh we've I think we've been very successful. But it wasn't when I say we, because it's really, you know, as a leader, you're only sort of the facilitator. You know, you're kind of guiding, you know, putting out the guardrail, so to speak, but you're really just kind of letting um people establish themselves. And um that's I think how how it holds, rather than just having somebody come in, do a few things. Um and I guess my philosophy is when you when you walk out the door, what remains is you know, not not you, you know, but the philosophies that you've been able to impart or build. And those things will endure only if they're embedded in everything. So that's I guess coming in what I was trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah, when I got here, we we ended up establishing uh three core values professionalism, teamwork, and integrity. And I think one of the things that um that we're most proud of is our teamwork here at the police department. I think the culture here um across uh divisions, uh, you know, subwork units, or even just the person sitting next to you in a uh, you know, the squad room or an investigations, uh, everybody works really well here together. And I think we have uh a great culture here. How how do you define your leadership philosophy? What what are your when you're uh you've been doing this for 10 years, uh a long time, how would you explain how you function as a leader?

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Oh gosh, you know, so probably I'm gonna say it depends, you know, because uh as you as you pointed out at the opening, COVID uh was something none of us dealt with. We all were told uh these horror stories, and many, well, many came true, many didn't, and we didn't know what to expect. And so how do you how do you prepare for that? I don't know. You try to just uh get everybody on the same page. And then after that, George Floyd and all um that followed, those were you know completely two different things, but they were almost simultaneous. And I don't know that you can have one style that can get you through both of those um events without being as flexible as possible. So my I guess I guess what I would say is it's situational. I come in with, you know, we want to have the best police officers, best trained, um and be here for our residents, our visitors, you know, the people that work in our community and provide them the best police service. And then how we do that, again, like you said, we have to build those teams and the flexibility to be able to deal with problems as they arise because now, if anything, COVID has taught me that you don't know what's coming down the pike, you have no idea what's happening next year, you know, or two years from now. So you gotta just prepare, you know, in a in a holistic fashion that you can just handle whatever's coming your way. And I'll I'll be honest with you, and when I started my career and during my career, we kind of knew where we were at, and and nothing really surprised us. You know, we had crimes, we responded, but never what I've imagined we would be doing the things we did during uh the pandemic, you know, and just handling those types of calls or just personnel issues. So I think the leaders today that I think have been the most successful that I look at as maybe somebody to pattern myself after are the ones that don't have a uh sort of uh very rigid set of rules that they have to go through every day. It's just one of those where we're gonna figure it out together.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

So I did a little bit of research on uh Lincolnshire Police Department, saw that you um have goals uh like drones, e-bikes, accreditation, recruitment. What are you guys working on currently and how do you decide, especially with limited resources, what what you're gonna work on first or where you're gonna put all of your attention?

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Well, that's a good question. So, again, being from a smaller community uh with a limited budget, you really do need to make decisions on what's what's best for you. Maybe there's the you know, uh a lot of the AI stuff is coming out now, and everybody has drones or has had drones. We're just now getting started. The benefit of that is we were able to learn from others that had programs um and sort of you know learn from their mistakes and successes. Uh I think even accreditation was something we held off on because we were going through so much change. Uh and as you know, uh accreditation can become a one-person job or it can become you know a hundred-person job, and you really needed, again, to be sort of embedded in the department. So we we're now getting to things like drones, and we have a drone team we bought to um, and actually you helped me out quite a bit. Um, if you remember, I was reaching out to you about your drone program and and indoor drones and out, you know, outdoor, because I didn't have enough information to to really even get the program started. So you talk about mentors, you your team and you helped me out specifically with that. Um, and now we have a lot of pilots and we're figuring it out, and it's it's an interesting program. But again, what we decided this year is we didn't want to over-index on one technology or even one company. So we're doing a top-to-bottom review on all things, uh, tactical and technical. So we're reviewing all of our equipment, all of our um technologies to try to figure out you know what's coming down the road in the future and what can we plan for. So, you know, it's one of those where you buy the thing today, you know, and all of a sudden it's outdated, and which we we see that all the time. Or you buy something, I don't know, you you want a bike unit, you buy three, four bikes and they just sit up there on the racks and nobody takes them out. You know, so the the hard thing is you want to make sure those programs are successful, um, that you have a plan in place to use them so you're not just spending money to spend it. Um and I think with our drones in particular, we know we have a lot of wide open space. We have the big, really big high school system um that we want to be able to uh, if they had a major event, be able to respond appropriately. So those are some of the uh reasons we went into those areas.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Chief, uh changing subjects here a minute. Uh you you've taught also since 1998, and you've been at DePaul uh as an adjunct professor since 2022. What uh what are some students most uh what do most students misunderstand about police leadership, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 28:22

So I think um, you know, police police work in general is still kind of a mystery with people, and and for good or bad, people watch TV and that's their experience of it. Um or maybe when they get a ticket. I will say um what's interesting for me, teaching at the college level, at the university level, those kids are are really smart. They are wicked smart. And if you if you're not ready for them, if you're not current on your information, if you don't have your stuff lined up uh and trying to be somewhat entertaining, uh they don't show up, or if they do, they can, you know, uh really ask them pointed questions. So that's one thing. And you I teach uh for Northwestern, I teach police officers or police leaders, you know, sergeants and above. And you know, that's a whole different crowd and a whole different level of credibility you have to have. So I think having um both of those sort of in mind, that really sort of you have to figure out um how you describe what policing is, and then you have to get into police leadership. And it's and it's two different audiences, but I don't know that students uh at the university level university level necessarily dive into those details. It's I guess it's different. You know, when you look at like CEOs of major Fortune 500 companies, I mean you can imagine they have a big corner office and uh you know they travel on their jets. Nobody really knows what a police chief does. Uh and so you just try to explain what leadership is, and then when you're teaching cops, they know what you know leadership is. They still don't know what the police chief does, by the way. You know, you walk around the hallways, you talk to people, and they're like, Well, that seems pretty easy. Anybody can do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Um, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

So you mentioned Northwest you mention you mentioned Northwestern, uh, the School of Police Staff and Command. You've you've taught uh several different classes at Northwestern. Can you explain to our audience a little bit what Northwestern uh does for police leadership, what that program is and why it's important?

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah, I'll give you my uh the Jill Leonis version. Um, and Northwestern will probably call up and say I'm I'm completely wrong about this. But this is my interpretation and why I got involved uh with Northwestern specifically. Uh so Northwestern has the university has a separate school, uh which is called the Center for Public Safety, and that center um has two basic tracks. They have a uh accident reconstruction and technical skills uh program, which is high on engineering and mathematics. Uh, and that was put together. That's actually one of the reasons Northwestern got started in public safety was they used to have what was called the Traffic Institute. And it was a high-level, again, engineering school for police officers to learn all about traffic management and reconstruction principles. Then from that, um, they dealt into management. And again, I I kind of gave you my little bio, but they have a lot of police chiefs back in the day, this is back in the uh mid-1900s, uh, that had no education whatsoever, and nor did they have any plans to go to college or you know, anything like that. Maybe they have some military experience. So what they were seeing, I think the problem they were trying to fix was management, police managers that needed to know how to manage, not just be police officers. So that uh Center for Public Safety is now one of probably three schools in the country that is you know nationally recognized. Um and it really is it's it's a 10-week school that uh police leaders go to all across the country uh to learn about the best practices and top management practices. Um and I've been lucky enough to be a part of that for a while. And uh they have another school, it's called the Executive Management Program, it's just for police chiefs. I've taught there uh a few times as well. So the idea is to come up with and teach uh and facilitate the best management principles, and then they go back to their departments. You know, you might have 50 students, police leaders from all over, they then go back to their departments and are able to better manage their departments. That's the I think the origin story, and that's kind of where it's ended up today.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

You you talked about um your department and and uh your previous department, Bartlett, and being being experts in different areas. Uh I think you know, we occur we encourage a lot of officers to do collateral assignments and become uh you know, high-risk traffic stop instructors or um or active threat instructors, range instructors. Of course, FTO is kind of the pathway to promotion where you're teaching new officers and and mentoring uh new officers. And um you've you've been doing you've been doing teaching in northwestern DePa, very uh high level, uh highly regarded programs and universities. How do you think teaching makes you a better chief?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Well, I would say, you know, I that's a great question. In some ways, um chiefs don't have to look outside of their building, you know, or outside of their community. So they can just kind of they know what they know, and and some are extremely successful. And I'm not saying that's the wrong path, uh, because you know, especially in bigger towns, you know, they do become uh really bogged down with the day-to-day the uh ability I've had to teach outside of my own agency and go you know across the country in some cases and teach is one, you find out what other communities are doing, other towns. I was down in Fort Lauderdale this month doing a class uh for Brouwer County. And uh, you know, it's a super big county and they have a lot going on, and they've they've seen quite a bit if you know that area. Um and you get into these conversations, really good conversations about again, I hate to use the term best practices, but it's what it's what they're doing and what we're doing back here in Lincolnshire or back in Illinois. And you kind of take notes. I'll be going to um to Denver next week to do a class. Um, and I've been up to Colorado a few times, and I always bring back more information, I feel, than what I'm what I'm giving. Um so but I'm able to collaborate, and then obviously you develop the relationships. I think the other piece of it is when you're teaching, it it's pretty humbling uh because there's a lot smarter people in the classroom than you, and you're just again facilitating it. So you're able to, if you can hold the classroom and you get into some deep, what I like to do is get into some pretty deep philosophical conversations about what we're doing, why we're doing it. Um you're then probably able to have those same conversations back home in your department a little bit easier. And and sort of, I'm not saying pre-test the answers or questions, but you know, you get a sense of where people are at, and then you can communicate out where you're at. So it's it's the information sharing. Um, in addition to, like I said before, you have to be on your game. If you're not up on the latest, most contemporary uh principles in policing, they'll call you out. You know, they'll they'll you can't you can't have dated information and go uh teach these police professionals, uh again, and even students. So I think what it forces you to do is to be really, really um diligent uh knowing what's happening in policing and just in in the world in general. So it I don't know, I call it a hobby because you know it's in addition to my my police chief job, uh, but it's really also a second passion. You know, I don't golf, as you know, Darren. I'm a pretty bad golfer. We've played golf. I only golf when I'm I I'm only I I only golf when I'm forced to against my will. I usually give up after about nine holes and I just drive the cart. Uh so you know, this is it's been kind of a a passion or a hobby of mine. So I that's the that's the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Well, you mentioned that that police officers are a tough audience, you know, they'll call you out on stuff. And I do think one thing that when you said uh maybe frontline officers don't really know what police chiefs do, or maybe even the public. Uh public speaking or being able to get up and present material and sometimes present material off the cuff or you know, get caught off guard or get uh confronted about some sort of issue. The the best way to to uh cut your teeth on that is to teach cops because they will they will be harder on you than any other audience, I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Uh yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's funny you bring it up. I talked in Fort Lauderdale, they were talking about um, we were talking about leadership, and they were saying what is some of the best advice. I said, I said, this is what I can tell you. Know what you stand for, and then be able to teach it. Because if you know what you stand for, I mean you really do know it, and you've been tested on and challenged on it, and then you can teach it, then you're you're bulletproof, you know. You you if you can do those two things, but a lot of people they're not quite sure, you know what they stand for. They're kind of you you have to be able to have your principles of who you are and know who you are. And I think uh you a little bit, you're a little younger than me. Um, but when you do reach a certain age, you kind of you you feel like you know who you are, you're a little more confident. But teaching uh those things because it's who you are is uh is a lot easier. First is I guess what I would not be good at is you know getting up there and talking about you know firearms, um, nomenclature or whatever. It's maybe I could do it, but it wouldn't be a passion. I enjoy the the deeper discussions. Um and you and I have had a lot of those discussions over the last two years, especially.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Well, we had a lot of them, partly because of our roles uh in the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police. You uh just completed your uh presidency uh in the ILACP. Uh the way you become president is you uh run for office and then you ro sit through the the chairs of uh the for the three vice president chairs and then uh the presidency. So you've been on the executive committee for quite a while, just completed one year as president, which wrapped up at the end of April. And um what did you think was the most important thing about the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police that you wanted to get involved with that association?

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Um well, I want you to answer that question after I'm done. But uh I will say, similar to policing, I had no idea what I was getting into. Uh you look at it from a distance and you're saying, yeah, I can do that. I would, I wouldn't, I think I could I could be good at that, or I think I can you know add something to that. Um but again, being uh involved in the association and having to go all over the state and talk to chiefs and leaders everywhere, it again is very humbling because you realize there's there's a lot of really good police chiefs around a lot of really good professional organizations, um, and they give you the privilege of being a part of the leadership team for the state. Um I think that the uh the collegiality that we have is very important, the ability to pick up the phone um or send a text or you know, have have the ability to have a conversation over a cup of coffee. Um and every chief that I know to a person will drop anything you're doing and return your call or take a meeting or you know, any time of day or night. If I have a problem and I haven't experienced it, or I need a little mentoring, a little advice, you know, hey, I'm I'm on the right path with this, maybe I haven't experienced it. Um everybody I know, and and they'll just take the time, walk me through uh the decision making that they had or that I'm going through, and we're able to really um really get some good results, and and it's really nice to have that ability um at this level because as you know, like it's a lonely job, and I'm not complaining because it's the best job in the world, but you know, there's not a lot of people internally that you can turn to. You have a lot of you know you have your leadership team, but when it when it comes to you making the final choice, sometimes you want to test it out or ask somebody a question. Um, and the Illinois Chiefs have given me that. And and outside of that, professionally, I will say personally, your friendship and everybody else's friendship was a byproduct, uh, I would say an unexpected byproduct. Um, a friend you never knew you needed. Um, but you're so glad that you you have, um was a really nice thing to come out of the Illinois Chiefs. And still, you know, I'm obviously still on the executive committee uh for another year as a past president, but to be able to make these relationships um and or establish them and keep them, you know, well after uh is really is really a nice thing for me to experience. Now you tell me your your answer to that question.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Well, I uh as as you mentioned, uh and and Mike's been in a lot of different roles as well. Uh back when I was a gang investigator, I was uh a part of the uh you know the gang association and to went to conferences in Chicago uh for the uh the gang association, and then I was I worked uh narcotics, of course, along with that. So I was part of the Illinois uh you know narcotics association, homicide association. And you lean on those people for uh different things like what are you seeing or experts or hey, how did you get that uh certification? Should I get should I be be a gang certified gang expert? Mike and I, when when I was at East Poin, uh we talked for years about emerging technology in cold cases. And um, I don't remember exactly, Mike. Did you bring that parabon thing up? I think you had gone to a conference about parabon, right? And we Started talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Yeah, it had been like 2015-ish or something.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah, and we were talking about emerging technology and you know, DNA, phenotyping, and different things, and no one really had any money for it. And when I came to Moline, we ended up getting that Mike solved uh what three now with with Parabond phenotyping. But I guess where I'm getting to that is that it's the network, right? Is the network of of uh that's relevant to your role. And so when I became uh a police chief, I knew I I wanted to get involved with the association to learn more and to build my network. And I have learned a ton from the Illinois Chiefs, and I cannot put into words the value of having you on speed dial, Pat Creese on speed dial, Mark Maaton, Lou Jogman. You know, the list can go on and on. You talk about um how I helped you with drones. I think that's a that's a great example, is you know, you've you've called me about that. Um Pat Creese and I have been working on different things uh for uh traffic, and and we've implemented a new program here that's been phenomenal. We've really had some great success with it, but that was out of a product that the project that Pat and I worked on. We're gonna talk a little bit later about something you and Lou Jogman are working on. And um I think the network is the answer, right? Is that it just makes you a better chief to have people that you can work on these projects on. And um, you know, I think that that's why these executive associations are important in the development of a police chief. And, you know, if you're just uh if you're just looking at my budget and you're like, do you really need to be a member of the FBI National Academy Association? Do you need to be a member of the ILACP? And my answer is absolutely. Um I was I'm I was a I was the president of the FBI National Academy Associates of several years ago, and I can't tell you how many of those people, um, both locally and nationally, I called. In fact, I had at one time um I had uh a case when I was a detective in East Wayne, I had a case where uh oddly enough, we had an active shooter threat at the high school, and it originated in Germany. And one of my really good FBI National Academy classmates was from Germany, and and uh I caught called him uh so many examples like that. And um, and so they are they are just such an important piece of development of a police chief. I think you have to be involved in those. And of course, you you attended to be the president and you just came off that year. When you were looking ahead to your presidency, what priorities did you want to to set uh for your presidency and and what did you think the Illinois Chiefs needed most uh when you were about ready to take on that role last year?

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Well, again, you never know what you're getting into. We have the benefit of kind of moving through the chairs so you get to see what the previous presidents are working on. I felt um, and you and I have discussed this, uh, that there needs to be a little more continuity or planning long term. You know, in your departments, you schedule your planning sessions and maybe you have a maybe you have a one-year plan or a two-year plan, but you also probably have a strategic plan where you say, okay, at at this point in the future, we should be here. And you have that team that can build that. Even if you were to leave the organization, they would still have that plan. I think the problem that we were seeing is the chiefs, you know, would ascend to the presidency, have an initiative, and then once they were gone, that initiative was gone. And maybe there was some people that would remember it or carry it on to some capacity, but you know, again, it uh true leadership, you have to think of what's the legacy of what you leave behind. I like where we ended up, um, and we continue this, is we develop a plan together, you know, with the vice presidents of maybe it's a three-year, four-year, five-year plan that we all believe in and we feel we we could accomplish something because it's sort of like, you know, passing the baton in a race. You want somebody else to pick up that baton, and then you're not gonna get any you you're not gonna get your whole plan accomplished, uh, but you can get somewhere. You get one year's worth of time to do it, and then you give it to the next person, they they carry it on. And then that also provides flexibility to be able to change the plan, you know, from year to year, but still have a goal in mind. And I think that's where we that's our uh what I'd like to believe is our new mission is to sort of have that continuity uh between all of us. Because when you ascend to the presidency, you're gonna have a whole new uh group of people under you. You want to be able to ask them what they're looking at in the future. Because to me, the the mark of a true professional is you always are looking at what's next, what's down the road, what's five years from now, what's the future. And if you're able to, to the best of your ability, sort of plan for that. That's what I think the Illinois Chiefs strength should be is a leader in future planning for executives to say, you know, hey, I have a question on this, you know, let me ask the Chiefs uh if they have any research or if they know what's going on, so we can be a resource. So I think that was when I was president, what I was trying to accomplish. I think um I think we were able to to do that or at least set the plan in place. I don't, you know, again, it'll it'll be up to you and and the other uh vice presidents and the current president to accomplish that. But that's that was my priority coming in.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah, I think even uh when you were vice president, you set the stage for that a couple years ago when we started doing those retreats of um leadership retreats and trying to uh to start thinking and planning and being more strategic. And we've done strategic planning and and uh setting some longer-term goals. I think that was smart. You you you uh also really wanted to do some of that stuff, but then also some external things that would affect the association. Uh, you were uh instrumental in creating a new women's leadership section. Can you tell our audience what that is and why it was a priority for you?

SPEAKER_02 50:35

So that developed. I was teaching classes, and at some point in the class, I would be in a discussion with a female leader, a police leader, and she might describe a situation in a department of you know, hitting the ceiling or whatever it was, or or if her department only did this, then things could be much easier. Um, or if they did that, then maybe they could get better in recruitment or whatever. Um and then I go to the next class and it'd be somewhere, it'd be a different state or it'd be somewhere else in the community, and and all of a sudden I was hearing the same questions and the same responses. If my department only did this, and I finally got to the point where I said locally I was able to do it in Illinois, what would it look like if we were able to put this section together to have women leaders actually control the future uh and be able to accomplish some things that probably should have been accomplished a long time ago? And my, you know, the moment that was clear for me when I was when we're discussing this, even at the Illinois Chief level, is like, well, you know, that we really want to get into this, you know, women um, you know, they they can always join. There's really no barriers. And I said, Well, I don't know what it's like to be a woman in law enforcement. I can tell you that uh while we may see it's pretty simple, I think we're not the people to answer that question. And so we we've got the right people in the room, the right women in the room to talk about this. And really it was with the idea of how do we get better recruitment? Yes, you know, women make up more than 50% of the population um in this country, but they don't make up 50% of any police department that I'm aware of. Um and I know there's a 30 for 30 by program the international chiefs have put together. That is, they want 30% of the police force to be uh female by the year 2030, which is a nice goal, and I'm not sure um they'll make that, but I think that's again, that's an aspirational goal. I think the other things that the leadership section has identified is how do we not just recruit, but how do we make women leaders? And then of the women leaders, how do we make them successful? Because I being married and and again, I got into the profession young, my wife was able to help me in my career. Quite simply, uh, I wouldn't be where I was today if she wasn't there for me to allow me to do all of the different things I've done. And um, yeah, you know, raising kids is a joint venture, but um, if I'm honest, you know, she did everything for the family. And I really poured everything into my career. I'm not saying that's healthy, I'm not saying that's right. And I think the younger generation is much better at balancing that. But I also think um police work seems to be behind the times. And do we do we really have a system set up for women to succeed? Because what I'm hearing, and I don't want you here in your area, is they have women have to make a decision. You know, am I going to do the leadership track or am I gonna have a family? Um if I have a family, can I look can I lead all the way up or do I have to make just am I gonna only do sergeant because I need shift, you know, uh shifts, uh different shifts for my family for childcare or whatever. These are not decisions anybody should have to make, but and I'll just say I was ignorant, I didn't even know that those things were happening. You know, I just assume, hey, we're all even, everything's equal, you have every opportunity. But I feel like the women's leadership section um is designed to help us, police chiefs, understand um the landscape a little bit better, and then we can make informed decisions. And I'm not saying every department has to look the same or do the same thing. So everybody's has a different staffing uh uh mechanism. But that was the goal, and I think they really nailed it. They they knocked it out of the park. They the women's leadership section is growing, they're doing trainings for uh ILACP as well as other um conferences. So I'm hopeful that that section does wonderful things. I think we need them a lot more than they need us, if I'm honest. Um they could probably have an Illinois uh, you know, association just on their own. I'm glad that they were able to start it with us. Um but that's you know, you you just have to be aware that you don't know everything as much as we think we do or pretend to. Uh, and there's a lot of area, a lot of blind spots that we could really benefit from um some experts. So that was the the at least the intent behind that session starting up.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Well, talking about uh blind spot, uh you have a future project that you're working on with uh the Highland Park Police Chief Lou Jogman, who has uh on a on the side has created the Illinois Public Safety Institute. Uh Lou is a very forward thinker. He was a past president of ILACP. He's developed a couple different things while he was president, uh very active, and he saw a blind spot here with some training gaps. Do you want to uh talk about what is coming with the Illinois Public Safety Institute?

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Yeah, as I understand it, um, you know, this this podcast is coming out in July, just after the fourth. So happy 4th of July. Um, and in the fall, we're gonna be uh, or Lou is gonna be launching his Illinois Public Safety Leadership Institute. And um this is the first uh iteration. There's it's actually a multi multi-year leadership development program. And the the niche here, the difference is this is really for civilian staff. And as you know, uh it is not easy to get civilian staff trained in general. You know, a lot of it's on-the-job training, they're just gonna be hired and they put in a position to just learn from those that are doing it, which is fine. Um, but then when again, kind of like I was talking about with Northwestern, what's the leadership development program? There's not really a lot out there. So I think Lou's idea, and it's really sound, is to put together this, it's a three-year program, and it's one week a year. And I believe his his goal is to do it every fall. Uh, he's chosen a place in uh Rosemont, and uh he's asked me to be a part of it, so I'll be doing a section with a little block of teaching. Um, but it's really kind of a cool idea because again, it's a structure where this uh the your department can send somebody three years in a row, it's a very nominal cost. Uh they get to go there, it includes all the meals, and then they get each day is a different instructor, might be even two different instructors on one day, and they get to focus on supervisory skills, uh service, leadership development, and each week of training is has a different theme. And so they'll build upon each other, and then they have that graduation after the third year, and uh it's a it's similar to what we're talking about with that networking. Again, as civilians they come into the department and bigger departments, um have more civilians, so maybe there's a little more uh separation with us at a small town. Our civilian staff is really again embedded with the officers. So there's you know, we see each other frequently and we share a lot of roles, but you don't want to become just isolated. So this networking opportunity is probably just as important as the education component, the ability to have somebody, you know, phone a friend when something's going wrong. So that's the the goal I think that Lou has. And uh like I said, that'll be coming up in the fall of 2026. And since you're asking about it, I'll do a shameless plug. It'll be uh September 28th to October 2nd in Rosemont, beautiful Rosemont, Illinois, which is right outside of uh Chicago, right next to O'Hare Airport. So easy to get to, easy to fly into from Aline if you're interested.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

You mentioned other things, uh, well, things that are coming up like that. The uh Midwest Expo is coming up here in August uh in Tinley Park. The Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police puts that on with uh ROC to bring in vendors, and it's a a great opportunity to uh network and see the new products, and it's not limited to to chiefs. Our association uh does uh focus on leadership, but we're also uh working on uh new products and technology and you know emerging issues and training and education. If you if you were talking to a future chief, somebody that has a desire in their career uh to get into uh law enforcement leadership, or maybe they're uh they're in in the final stages of maybe getting a job. What would you tell them to do in week one, week month one, or even year one as a new chief?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

Um well, number one, I would say, do you really want to do this?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Really test test their resolve there because everybody thinks it's easy. And then I guess it's not it's not as bad as I'm saying, but you know, it really is you just need to be ready for uh leadership at a different level. Um that's number one. Assuming they're all in, and I would say again, respect the culture. Um, don't try to imprint your personality on other people. Um and probably the thing that has been the hardest for me, and I don't know, maybe you would have a different uh response, but find people that can that are willing to tell you the truth no matter what, and especially amongst your command staff, give them permission to dissent and permission to tell you when you're crazy and when you are way, way off and you shouldn't be uh doing something because again, you know, people want to please you and they and they want to stay in their positions or they just feel like you know they don't have permission to uh say anything wrong. People don't want to be wrong, they don't want to be called out. And sometimes I I don't know how how it is for you. I've been in rooms where we all know this is a bad idea, we all know that this is not gonna end well, and nobody wants to raise their hand because they think they're the you know, they're the one put themselves at risk, or maybe they're the only ones that feel like that. Um really having people um to be honest with you, and that's again the networking with other chiefs is good because they'll tell you when you're wrong, you you know, they'll tell you when you shouldn't do something, but uh your staff I think it looks to you to lead and you just need to listen a lot more than you think. Um and I'll just say I when I came into Lincolnshire, I knew I had all the answers, I knew everything. And I did. I did. I for like six months, I was I was swatting flies. I was like, oh yeah, I know that, I know that, I know that. This is super easy, and then all of a sudden I had something I had no idea. I was like, wow. Yeah, and that's when you really gotta tap into your resources. So that was the best advice that I could give is just uh you know, let people tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

Yeah, I think that's a that's great advice. And back to kind of wrap it all up with in with the importance of the association when you say you know, you you know what you know, but you don't know those things that you've never dealt with or what you don't know, uh that phone call to someone else who probably has had that experience, right? And being able to uh call and say, hey, have you dealt with this issue? Oh yeah, I have. And or if not, no, I don't, but I'll give you a number, you know, to the next town over they just dealt with us, and uh being able to get that advice experience, just somebody else that's already been through it, uh, maybe can point you in the right direction, um, is uh is absolutely phenomenal. Joe, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today and telling our listeners about Lincolnshire, Bartlett, telling them telling them about your work at Northwestern and Paul and of course the Illinois Association Chiefs, please. Um, I'll say that you've been a great friend to me and a great colleague, and uh I look forward to continuing working with you. Uh best of luck to you in Lincolnshire and stay safe up there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

If you've enjoyed this podcast, I'd ask that you would share it with someone else. Uh, we have over 40 other episodes in our podcast called available on Apple Music, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. You can also get it on our website. Uh, you can learn more about our people, our cases in our community by listening to those and keep listening. We drop a new episode uh every other Monday at 6 a.m. on our podcast platforms. We appreciate you listening. And this has been the most recent episode of the Moline Police Podcast.